Deerfield River: Locals v. “Outsiders”

[Uplander]

Now, let me preface this by saying that I almost never fish the Deerfield River. I’m pretty much strictly a solitude and wild, mountain brookies man, so it’s just not my cup of tea.

But, those few times I have been to the Deerfield I’ve noticed an abnormally large number of Connecticut, New York, and New Jersey license plates. Fish Pond it ain't....

I’m just curious if any of you fellows who do fish the Deerfield have noticed a difference in locals versus “outsiders” when you encounter another angler on the River? For example, do they have different ethics, is one group more arrogant or less friendly? Differences in gear? Catch & release versus catch & keep?

[Mark Patenaude]

Uplander:

Good topic. The same question is always asked in Wisconsin about Iowa and Illinois anglers.

Yes, I have noticed differences. The mindset is that this is not "their " resource and they don't treat it with the respect that it deserves.

I have seen fish handled very roughly and the quiet and solitude you (and I) seek is typically broken by the hootin' and hollerin' when they hook up. They leave garbage on the banks and don't practice etiquette by wading through your drift and are generally rude.

As for the gear I haven't taken much notice but can tell you that most of them need extensive casting lessons and don't know dry fly vs. nymph/streamer techniques.

I am also concerned about publishing any information and/or writing any article that would make this water (as well as any other) more attractive to drawing these types of fishers. Lets keep things under out collective hats. I am a believer that if you want to be successful on a particular river/tributary you should put in the time to learn it.

Again, this is an excellent topic for discussion...

Mark

[JoeOverlock]

This is a great topic. So we have 3 main questions from this:

- Do tourist anglers abuse our streams?

- Are tourist anglers arogant to the locals?

- Should we (this club or magazines) publish "destination" articles?

1) I can't recall seeing any out-of-towners abusing the Deerfield. I've seen more local guys from Charlemont do worst to the stream then any of the weekend anglers from NYC and Jersey. These guys get in there and throw there beer bottles and worm cans all over the banks. The rafting companies do far worst with all thier "floating pollution" drifting over the hole your fishing every 5 minutes.

2) When I'm on the Deerfield I like to talk to the other anglers, see if they're catching anything and ask them where they're from. A lot of out-of-town anglers are all to happy to talk and ask me for any advise if they're not catching anything. I do come across an arrogant guy every now and then. That's just human nature though.

3) Should we publish "destination" articles? I think we should. I track the website stats daily. We get a lot of people coming to the website searching for info on the Deerfield. People know about it, and want to come to our area, spent thier money while here, and catch a fish or two. Here in the Berkshires we have a lot of good fishing and I don't mind sharing it.

Also, when the magazines publish the "destination" articles it gives me ideas about places I'd like to fish. I like to fish new places. For example, Fly Fisherman magazine just did an article about Maine's Rapid River. I was thinking about fishing it last yeat but couldn't find a lot of information about it. Now because of that article, I feel that I have enough info to go fish it.

What's everyone elses opinion, are destination articles bad?

[FishinCane]

Having fished the Deerfield at least 50 days a year for the past 20 years this is what i have seen.

In the 1980's when the scheduled releases of water was accurate and after "The Movie" came out the number of local and out of state fishers was high.

In the 90's when the power company's contract was renewed and the water releases became inconsintent the number of fishers as well as out of staters went down.

Currently I hardly see any out of staters there and when I do they always complain about the water releases. I think their drop off in numbers is because of this. Why travel 3 hours only to have to turn back because the water is high.

[Uplander]

joeoverlock said:

3) Should we publish "destination" articles? I think we should. I track the website stats daily. We get a lot of people coming to the website searching for info on the Deerfield. People know about it, and want to come to our area, spent thier money while here, and catch a fish or two. Here in the Berkshires we have a lot of good fishing and I don't mind sharing it.

Also, when the magazines publish the "destination" articles it gives me ideas about places I'd like to fish. I like to fish new places. For example, Fly Fisherman magazine just did an article about Maine's Rapid River. I was thinking about fishing it last yeat but couldn't find a lot of information about it. Now because of that article, I feel that I have enough info to go fish it.

What's everyone elses opinion, are destination articles bad?

Destination articles are a tricky thing…. In my opinion, sometimes they do no harm, in other instances they can be the ruin of a stream.

For example, destination articles about the Deerfield River or Westfield River I don’t see as a problem as these rivers are already Destinations for the tourist and local angler.

The Hoosic River I’m ambivalent about when it comes to destination articles. I don’t believe that it has attained Destination status as of yet, but I’m not sure people who fish it would be pleased if it ever does.

Finally, when it comes to small streams, especially those secluded streams with a viable population of naturally reproducing brook trout, I think destination articles are an abomination. There is no surer way to kill such a special place, spiritually if not physically, than to bring it to the attention of the angling hoard. I really hope that Berkshire County Fly Fishers is not about publishing details of all the currently non-Destination streams in the Berkshires. Because if it is, I’ll not be a party to it….

[JoeOverlock]

uplander said:

The Hoosic River I’m ambivalent about when it comes to destination articles. I don’t believe that it has attained Destination status as of yet, but I’m not sure people who fish it would be pleased if it ever does.

Finally, when it comes to small streams, especially those secluded streams with a viable population of naturally reproducing brook trout, I think destination articles are an abomination. There is no surer way to kill such a special place, spiritually if not physically, than to bring it to the attention of the angling hoard. I really hope that Berkshire County Fly Fishers is not about publishing details of all the currently non-Destination streams in the Berkshires. Because if it is, I’ll not be a party to it….

I just want to clear one think up. The stuff I post here shouldn't reflect on the club's opinion. If I do destination articles for the website, and the membership doesn’t like me telling the whole world to come fish Pontoosuc Lake for example, then it's gone. And as a member, Shaun, you have the privilege of telling me that. This is your club, not mine.

The Hoosic is probably going to be the next destination river of the Berkshires, and the people to blame are the guys that are destroying the river. Dave Willette and I are privately asking the State and BCLS to consider designating it a Catch & Release stream (This is NOT a project of the Berkshire County Fly Fishers).

Every year I see more and more fishermen out there abusing the fish and polluting the stream with their worm cans and beer bottles, smashing the trout off a rock, or dragging it up the walls of the basins. If we don't do something now, then it will be out of control. Now don't think we're throwing caution to the wind here. The State is going to survey the river to see if it can handle the pressures of being a catch and release, and if they say no, then we will come up with another plan to protect it. This whole process take years to complete.

This website has turned out to be a great informational tool for tourists coming to the Berkshire. I would like to highlight a few of our rivers and lakes (and neighboring one) in the Articles section.

What about this for a list?

Deerfield (Upper C&R only)
Housitonic, MA and CT C&R's
Batenkill
Cheshire Res. for Bass and Chain Pickerel
Pontoosuc Lake for the same plus pike

Any additions or subtractions?

[Uplander]

I hear you Joe, and I understand where you’re coming from.

The danger in this digital world is that it allows anyone to post details of a “secret spot” that might only be frequented by a couple of guys a year. Once word gets out on a BB or website, the number of anglers fishing it could increase, and usually the place can’t handle much pressure and is despoiled of what made it special in the first place. I’d hate to see that happen to anyone….

I frequent a bird hunting BB, and from time to time guys will post specific location details about a partridge or woodcock cover. Well, anyone living in the vicinity of that hunting spot FREAKS OUT and besieges the moderator with requests to delete the post. I’ve always seen the moderator make the deletion.

Now, obviously none of us own any of the rivers, lakes, or streams in the Berkshires, and they’re open to fishing for all. I can’t stop anyone from spouting off about the places they fish. But, for whatever reason, I see a huge difference in talking about the Deerfield River, the Hoosic, the big lakes and ponds, etc. versus giving out details about small streams.

Of course, I’ll be the first to admit that a large reason for my fanatical protection of small streams is selfish; I fish the small streams and don’t want to see others fishing them. Actually, that’s not entirely true…. I don’t want to see others fishing them who didn’t earn the “right” to fish them by finding them on their own; walking the miles, testing the waters, etc. like I did over the years to find these spots. There is just something intrinsically wrong with being handed the directions to a secluded, backwoods fishing spot “free of charge” on the Internet. I paid the price to find these spots, and want those who fish it besides me to have paid the same price. I think you’ll find that those who do pay the price it takes to find an off-the-beaten-path fishing spot are respectful and protective of their just reward, and are not in favor of letting those others into the “club” who haven’t paid their dues. There must be others here on the BB who feel the same way I do?

And, as I’ve said, I view public discussion of big rivers and ponds differently. They’re just so, well, so public already that I have a harder time seeing them as being remotely secret at all. I mean, the Deerfield has parking lots all along it…. Although, thinking about it, I suspect if I was partial to fishing the bigger rivers like the Deerfield, the Hoosic, and ponds like Pontoosuc and Cheshire I wouldn’t be in favor of popularizing them any more than they already are. It’s just selfish human nature that some of us don’t like to see where we fish broadcast to the world. Some don’t care, but a lot do….

As for helping the tourists….well….that’s a tough call. There are few places left in the eastern United States as special as the Berkshires. In fact, I’d go so far as to state that I think that most of the people living in the Berkshires aren’t even really aware of how extraordinary where they live is, and, sadly, are often all too willing to destroy that wonderfulness in the name of money. The wild places of the Berkshires where I hunt and fish are exceptionally special to me. They are the places I go to relive the feelings and emotions of boyhood, to commune with family and friends who have passed on, to hold Nature incarnate in my hands, and to bask in the wonder of solitude. That’s worth far more to me than any tourist dollars….

[ctroy36]

I'm of two minds on this one.

One one hand I'm down here in southwest Florida for the winter and hoping to give salt water fly fishing a try. Since I know zip about it, I've been searching the internet for info. One really helpful site run by a local fly shop has a forum where I've been able to find info on where to go, what to use and what fish are taking. With that info I can get started.

On the other hand, I'm jealous of the places I fish back home, particularly small brook trout streams. But, because the Housatonic and Hoosic are hardly secret spots, I gladly post reports on what I find when fishing them. However, I'm not about to detail particular spots where I find fish.

In short, I think we should offer visitors general information about prospects in the area, but not lead them by the hand. It's what I expect when exploring a new area and I guess what's good for he goose is good for the gander

[bscanman]

I've had some strange interactions with anglers on the upper Deerfield. Don't get me wrong, I've met some very pleasant people, but I would guess half of the anglers I've come across haven't even returned a polite "Hello" or a tip of the hat from across the stream. Could be I'm just a scary looking dude.

Joe, the Rapid is a destination these days. I went on a pilgrimage to the Rapid about three years ago and it was pain to get any information then. Quite a river though. Access was pretty difficult. Took an hour on unmarked dirt roads in my truck followed by a two mile mountain bike ride to Middle Dam.

[dragonma15]

I don't really see a problems pointing out the most common holes in a river. As I fish the Westfield the most offten, I usually point newer fly guys to the overpass bridge area, and have them stop in at B&Gs to talk to the guys there. Articles about such areas should be written. It would help draw more anglers into the area, get your local fly shop some more business and the increase in licenses should help our local rivers and lakes, not hurt them.

Now small streams and " secret spots" should be kept that way. Small and secret. Those areas would suffer if an article presented it as the next big thing.

As to the original question, I haven't seen a difference between out of state anglers and MA anglers.

But then again, I try to keep to myself and get away from the crowds.

Gregg

[DanaC]

I've been fishing the Deerfield since 1992. I know that makes me a relative newcomer in some eyes. Also since I travel from Ludlow to fish there, I don't know if I qualify as a local or an outsider.

The river itself is no secret. d**n few are. A couple years ago there were big spreads on the Deerfield, Westfield and Housatonic in glossy magazines.
The Westfield article was in 'Trout' (TU members mag) and the author rightly pointed out that after 350 years of inhabitation by whites there were no secret streams left in New England.

That being said, I'll admit, I don't like seeing my favorites in the spotlight. As a writer, I've mentioned rivers myself, and sometimes particular stretches of them. However, I try not to be TOO specific. (Someday I'll find somebody fishing the Secret Slot and it's gonna hurt...)

But rivers change. Good spots get silted in, channels get blocked, and new holes form. I try to check out new stretches as often as time allows. I think it's part of the fishing adventure. Sure, there are those days when I'll wade into the most obvious spot and stay for three hours. Maybe I've got a couple new 'hunch' patterns and I want to try them on the PhD's at the Parking Lot. But I usually actually catch more fish by walking more and trying the odd places where nobody else goes.

I do try to be courteous, and enjoy talking to the folks I meet on the river, or at least saying 'hi'. Some are eager to talk, others are wrapped up in something, like what in heck are the fish taking, or whatever. That's okay, I've been in that place myself. But let's face it, you're not gonna find a lot of solitude at Carbis Bend. (Although I did, once, have it all to myself. Yellow drakes, big bastards, eager fish...hehehe)

Dana

[jf5]

I've seen jerks at almost every fishing spot. Some are local and some are not. I've meet great people at fishing spots both local and not.

The Deerfield and Westfield are large and is touted by the state as "the best trout streams in the state" so you are always gonna see out of staters there. The C & R maps out where SOME of the good areas are. No article will increase the pressure now. MA Housatronic is becoming a "destionation" becasue F & G promoted it that way.
Hoosic is still a bit uner the radar, popular locally, but not nationally. But it all depends on your position. Some folks want to see others take interest in fishing and will offer such info on the place readily. Others want to keep the streams to themselves. Neither is wrong.

Persoanlly I do not support C & R/promotion of Hoosic because it will bring attention it dosn't need. But thats me and my selfish want to keep the fishery as is. Others see it differently and thats fine.

As for the small streams. I think it depends. Most small mountain/forst brookie streams can easily take a harvest and rebound. Most of these streams have a life span of 3 years for these fish, so a few for dinner is no big deal. Also, in this day and age, many anglers are unimpressed with 8" brook trout. However, other small streams donlt fall into this catagory.

Most folks are to lazy to fish hard anyway. If you have a spot way up in the hills its not gonna be hit that much by most fishers...