Catskill vs. New Patterns

[Mark Patenaude]

Just curious if my fellow tyers prefer to tie and fish the newer patterns over the standard Catskill patterns.

The newer patterns I'm referring to are parachutes, wingers,
tear-drops, etc...

I find that the new(er) patterns are easier and more efficient to tie vs. getting the hackle proportions just right on the old stand-by Catskill patterns.

Mark

[JoeOverlock]

I like the newer patterns better. Stuff with CDC, Parachutes, articulated streamers, yada yada yada... I still use the traditional patterns but prefer the newer ones.

[wintershope]

The newer flies ,beleave it or not,are not all that new.Parachutes have been around for the last 40 years.cdc on the other hand is kind of new,but has been around also for 15 years.I my self tend to lean on the old catskill ties,but one of the bad things is that many are over dressed.Too much hackle.But ive had luck with all kinds of flies..My hat really goes off to foam flies.The ants work great all over and the beatles ,well helter skelter! But,dry flies ,and there styles , keep comeing around every so often and die out and come back agian. I geuss thats what happens when you read fly fishing rags,for 28 years.You see it all come around agian...When there a really good hatch and the trout are jumping to beat the band box,Just about any fly will work....

[DanaC]

Every year at the show in Marlboro there's a guy tying authentic catskill flies. Way outta my league. I tie parachutes and lately use the synthetic winging - much easier.

[FishinCane]

DanaC,

If you can tie a parachute you have the skill to tie traditional style. I started out tying traditional but always had trouble with parachute/thorax style until I tied a bunch of them.

[DanaC]

'Cane WADR I must disagree - parachutes are pretty easy once you learn how. Catskill flies with the divided, separated figure-eighted wings are a nightmare, to say nothing of the super-slender bodies and impeccable hackling. Nope, give me turkey flats ala AK Best or Medallion sheet wings and I'm fishin' pretty and not crying when I lose a fly. Now if only the danged water would come down. Even the Swift is up, it's June and Quabbin is blowing over the spillway...

dana

PS I _highly_ recommend AK Best's videos for easy how-to on 'chutes etc.
"Tying Tiny Dry Flies" will put you right over the edge ;-)

[AgMD]

I learned to fish the fly through the teachings of Bergman, McClane, Ovington, Flick and folks of their generation. So , it was only natural that I should learn to fish the flies they used. Like Flick I believe that wings are not really needed on most dries and they can be a pain in the butt to tie. If you don't get 'em equal and centered they can twist your leader as they are cast. I feel free to leave them out most times. I guess I don't exactly tie classic Catskill dry flies but the flies I do tie are clearly influenced and decended from the classics. The wet flies I tie are pretty much standard patterns ala Bergman. I don't have anything against the more modern patterns or materials, but I long ago gave up trying to tie every pattern ever created, so I pretty much stick with the old standards and flies of that family. I am not a slave to exact pattern or materials though. The old timers used what they could get their hands on. When I find I dont have exactly the proper material I'll substitute with no apologies. I firmly believe there is nothing wrong with inovation and experimentation but I also believe that the old standards became old standards because they worked .I would like to learn how to tie a braided nymph though.
AgMD

[strbender]

AgMD

I'm new to tying. I have tied a few Adams and a couple other Catskill patterns. My question to you would be, if you leave the wings (pita) off do they then become whats called the Variants? I notice when I fished the Adams that I tied (wings are questionable) the tippet looks like it's fighting the fly.

[AgMD]

Strbender, Yes, although some would hold that a variant should have oversized hackle. I don't get too worked up over terminology though. Over on the Flyanglers on line board they had a huge ongoing debate on just what is and isn't a Catskill fly. Are only those specific patterns that were created in the Catskills by the tyers of legend true Catskill flies or can we call any pattern that is tied in the manner of the traditional flies, a Catskill fly? For me it is all just words, and though these words can be usefull to describe different flies or styles I believe the fish don't really care if a fly body is tied with " the pinkish fur from the underbelly of a vixen fox" or something that is pretty close from the undercoat of the neighbors golden retriever.
Art Flick's "New streamside Guide" is an excellent source for an exploration into a small concise selection of flies, the naturals they imitate, and dates of emergence. With some minor adjustment of the emergence chart, it is a good representation of the flies found locally. Art's thinking is that a a good fly pattern should be durable enough to last through the catching of many fish and still be in good shape. One of the reasons to favor against wings. Also one pattern, tied in different sizes can imitate more than one natural. His book presents ten flies,and their nymphal forms, which will imitate the majority of mayflies found in this region, and though he admits the usefullness of other patterns ( caddis and stone flies are not really adressed) these ten provide a solid foundation for the fishermans collection.
AgMD