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Post by JoeOverlock on Jul 28, 2005 11:40:04 GMT -5
After the release of this months newsletter I received a little flack about advising people to target areas of the Hoosic where cold brooks dump into the river. This seems to be a very opinionated subject (to target trout in the summer or not to) and I would like to hear some opinions about it. So, what do you think?
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Post by Mark Patenaude on Jul 28, 2005 15:52:13 GMT -5
Joe,
You forgot one possible alternative on your poll.
"Dependent on water temperatures"...
Just as you did (and I make a practice of in warmer weather) on our outing in July, you checked the temp at every location we went to. This shows concern as well as care on your part to ensure that the temps were conducive to catch and release with minimal harm to the fish. Having found them in the 60-65 degree range we both knew without saying that we were O.K. to fish.
However, if the water temps are in excess of 70 degrees, I would recommend taking a pass. The mortality rate at or above that temp is exponentially higher than only 5 degrees cooler.
62-65 is the optimal temp for trout feeding, especially Browns.
Having experienced a lengthy stretch of extremely hot weather here in the Midwest recently, water temps are very high and it is the consensus of many fly fishers in Wisconsin (where I primarily fish) to chase the warm water species, if that is your thing.
You know Joe, its interesting to me that a number of people are giving you a hard time but I have yet to see a "get the word out" type of post on the board about backing off the trout in warm weather. Sounds a bit hypocritical to me...
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Post by JoeOverlock on Jul 28, 2005 16:28:27 GMT -5
That's an excellent point, Mark. I should of added more commentary and advised fellow anglers to be more aware of water temperatures while pursuing summer trout. +1 point for Mark  |
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Post by Uplander on Jul 29, 2005 10:31:33 GMT -5
Geeze, talk about taking things too seriously. It’s fishing! It’s supposed to be fun, not a moral test every time you wet a line.  Few things are as irritating as a self-righteous fly fisherman who pontificates a mythological morally superior position of catch and release, barbless hooks, and refraining from fishing during the “hot” Summer months. If that’s someone’s personal feelings, great. More power to them. Bravo! Just don’t preach to the rest of us….. I fish many mountain streams all Summer long that are fully capable of tolerating fishing pressure on the resident trout without adverse impact. The Berkshires get plenty of rain, cool down nicely in the evenings, and enjoy very low fishing pressure. So don’t fret about it. The fish will be just fine. Have been for millennia. Just get out and enjoy a beautiful Summer day on your favorite stream. Perhaps ( GASP) even a stream side fish fry....   |
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Post by Joshua Field on Jul 31, 2005 20:40:51 GMT -5
Agreed that fishing should be about fun , but I also think that one of the great things about having this community (as opposed to fishing in utter isolation as many of us would normally do) is that it makes us aware that other people are, in fact, sharing the awesome resource of our local streams. I, for one, certainly appreciate the local flyfishing community’s effort to keep it a clean, well-protected and productive resource. Also, keep in mind that, while there are lots of experienced folks who know the ins and outs of the sport enough to formulate their own opinion, there are lots of other folks involved in this group that are just getting started with the sport and might be surprised to find out what can have an impact on a released fish’s ability to survive to be caught again. This time of year I generally see two or three dead trout in the river that I can only guess are heat related mortality or disease since anything else wouldn’t leave the fish in tact. If I assume this is only a small percentage of the total mortality (since most must be eaten, washed downstream, caught under rocks, etc) the heat must have some impact even without fishing pressure. Anyone else seen this sort of thing after a run of particularly hot weather?  |
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Post by caddisking on Sept 7, 2005 6:31:25 GMT -5
Geeze, talk about taking things too seriously. It’s fishing! It’s supposed to be fun, not a moral test every time you wet a line. Few things are as irritating as a self-righteous fly fisherman who pontificates a mythological morally superior position of catch and release, barbless hooks, and refraining from fishing during the “hot” Summer months. If that’s someone’s personal feelings, great. More power to them. Bravo! Just don’t preach to the rest of us….. I fish many mountain streams all Summer long that are fully capable of tolerating fishing pressure on the resident trout without adverse impact. The Berkshires get plenty of rain, cool down nicely in the evenings, and enjoy very low fishing pressure. So don’t fret about it. The fish will be just fine. Have been for millennia. Just get out and enjoy a beautiful Summer day on your favorite stream. Perhaps ( GASP) even a stream side fish fry.... What a moron. If Lee Wulf was still alive he would kick your ass. It's been 20 or more years since I last met a fly fisherman with no morals. I think you've been spending to much time up in those mountains. |
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Post by Uplander on Sept 7, 2005 7:01:02 GMT -5
Saints preserve us from holier-than-thou, sanctimonious, “morally superior,” fly fisherman….
;D
------------------
As more generations grow up without the experience of wilderness, its intrinsic spiritual, cultural, and personal values cease to imprint the fabric of our society, values whose loss undeniably impoverishes our way of life.
**William Meadows**[/color]
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Post by caddisking on Sept 7, 2005 7:09:29 GMT -5
There's nothing worse then arguing with an english major...  Saints preserve us from holier-than-thou, sanctimonious, “morally superior,” fly fisherman…. ;D ------------------ As more generations grow up without the experience of wilderness, its intrinsic spiritual, cultural, and personal values cease to imprint the fabric of our society, values whose loss undeniably impoverishes our way of life.
**William Meadows**[/color] [/quote] |
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Post by Uplander on Sept 7, 2005 7:14:14 GMT -5
Well, why don't you tell us about yourself caddisking? Do you live in the Berkshires? Do you fly fish? How often? Inquiring minds want to see the credentials of the new, resident, "subject matter expert" who has miraculously appeared in our midst to point the Visigoths down the path of fly fishing enlightenment… |
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Post by tims on Sept 7, 2005 12:13:17 GMT -5
personal rule is i start shutting down in any water over 70; one tailwater i fish has good disolved 02 content even up to 72, but that can get iffy, too......heavier tippet, get 'em in quick, fish mostly mornings.....
targetting spring holes, for me, is something i don't do....obviously the fish are stressed and looking for thermal refuge, why cause them further stress? when it warms up, i'll look for bass or stripers
that's just me, your mileage may vary
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Post by caddisking on Sept 7, 2005 12:35:17 GMT -5
I agree. When the water gets over 70-72 degrees I put the fly rod away. That's about the time that Uplander pulls out the gill nets, though. ;D
Boy, he's going to be pissed when he reads this... relax kid, I'm just having fun with ya.
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Post by Uplander on Sept 7, 2005 13:30:27 GMT -5
Gill nets are for amateurs. I prefer the trusty ol’ quarter stick of dynamite…. ;D Don’t get me wrong fellers, I wouldn’t fish a hot stream either. Not too many of the backwoods streams I frequent get very warm though. They’ll still make your knuckles ache when you put your hands in on a hot August afternoon…. Guess I’ll know you all when I see you in the field though. Just have listen for the tell-tale jingle of the gizmos and do-dads, like stream thermometers and insect seines, dangling off the zingers pinned to your vests and dangling from your lanyards. |
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Post by tims on Sept 7, 2005 13:32:16 GMT -5
no do dads or jingles, but my vest is generally full!
i tend to fish larger waters up here with multiple hatches & sometimes technical fish......hence i carry too many boxes of flies!
small streams i like the minimalist approach, though......
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Post by Uplander on Sept 7, 2005 13:37:25 GMT -5
Tim, I’m curious, how the heck do you measure the dissolved O2 content of a stream? And, does Orvis sell that gizmo? |
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Post by tims on Sept 7, 2005 15:06:24 GMT -5
nope, but i have a buddy with a portable pH rig.....he fishes a ton of coastal brookie streams, and ones with undesireable pH he knows not to bother....
the stretch i fish a ton is on the middle kennebec....with several paper mills, it is measured yearly.....we pushed for more stringent regs in terms of effluent discharge from mills up here on the andro & kennebec in an effort to raise dissolved o2 levels to a level that would encourage more holdovers & growth.....but it was shot down (although that stretch of the K has better 02 levels than required by law)....so i have a pretty good idea as to dissolved 02 in that stretch.....so between good thermal refuge & good 02, i know i can fish somewhat safely even in the 70-71 degree range, as long is it is cooler during the night......i know i can fish it a week or two longer into july than some other rivers i frequent, basically
i do carry a thermomer, though....a nice digital one also.....helps predict hatches in the spring, and you know when you should switch over to bass!
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Post by caddisking on Sept 7, 2005 15:18:36 GMT -5
I think a thermometer is a must for a fly fisherman. It's just as important as your rod. I don't have a fancy digital one, but someday I will. I guess Uplander doesn't where a vest... tisk tisk tisk..."Failure to prepare is preparing for failure" |
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Post by Uplander on Sept 7, 2005 15:24:33 GMT -5
I guess Uplander doesn't where a vest... tisk tisk tisk..."Failure to prepare is preparing for failure" No, he doesn't wear a vest. Just carries a creel with a couple of essentials. Gear is a crutch for those without skill. But hey, caddisking, if lugging around gobs of accessories is what you need to catch fish, you go for it! |
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Post by bscanman on Sept 7, 2005 16:10:08 GMT -5
Jeez, I haven't been to the board for a couple weeks and things seem to have gotten a little testy. I think best answer to the question is "Depends." If you're not keeping them and the stream temp is above 70F, don't target trout. If you're looking to catch something for your legally entitled treat, by all means target whatever fish you want, wherever it is...as long as you're following the stream regs. Just my humble opinion. |
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Post by Joshua Field on Sept 7, 2005 16:19:39 GMT -5
I'm with uplander on the vest question. I just carry a small canvas creel with a few items (one of which is a thermometer on a zinger). When I'm tromping through woods a vest just seems like another way to get hung up on brush.
As I've said before, if I'm worried about not having something in my gear I just call Joe Overlock to see if he wants to go with me. Invariably he replies "Yeah, I've got that". ;D
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Post by Joshua Field on Sept 7, 2005 19:46:29 GMT -5
I'd never thought to test for pH... I wonder if you could just use the little testers they make for pool water. "One other factor make spring creeks an almost ideal habitat for trout. Most springs occur where the topography of the underlying rocks has room for water. Aquifers can consist of gravel layers, sand layers or layers of broken rock. The most common type of rock that has room for water is limestone. Specifically something called Karstien topography, the same type of underground topography that gives rise to caves and caverns. And where there is limestone underground the water dissolves some of it and the calcium in the limestone raises the pH of the water. Trout thrive in higher water with a pH over 7.5 and limestone helps raise the pH to this and higher levels." from www.flyfishingjournal.com/archives/fa199908_1.htmre: disolved oxygen - if you were really cool and really rich, you could carry around one of these babies: www.topac.com/oxygendiss.html (only about $800! if i see anyone walking around in the river with one of these dangling from your vest, prepare to be laughed at) Seriously though, there must be a cheap solution. Anyone know of an inexpensive test kit that would work for streams? I'd be interested in testing some of the back woods streams I've come across. Seems like people test their fish ponds successfully: www.pondbiz.com/home/pb1/smartlist_323/h2o_test_kits__meters.html |
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Post by JoeOverlock on Sept 8, 2005 9:54:44 GMT -5
You laugh, but if that thing was smaller and cheaper, I'd carry one. I'd love to have a complete water testing setup in my vest.
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Post by Uplander on Sept 8, 2005 10:00:03 GMT -5
You have any time to actually fish Joe? Or, is it dark out by the time you’re finished taking the water temp, measuring the pH, oxygen, nitrogen, PCB, and fertilizer content of the water, not to mention seining the riverbed for “matching the hatch?” ;D |
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Post by JoeOverlock on Sept 8, 2005 10:23:04 GMT -5
Yeah, I've got a little bit of an obsession with this sport. |
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Post by tims on Sept 8, 2005 11:47:18 GMT -5
uplander
my buddy that tests pH on streams does some serious bushwhacking and catches some serious brookies....the pH thing pays off for him (and he is by far the best fisherman i know, bar none)
for others, seining nymphs, tying the perfect match, etc, etc is part of the game.....when i was little i couldn't pass a log in the woods without turning it over, just to see what was underneath, and i am still like that....i always check under stones in the stream or beat the bushes for bugs...hell, some summer nights i turn on my porch light just to see what is hatching on the river across the street....
to each his own, just respect the resource and follow the laws...
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Post by caddisking on Sept 8, 2005 13:25:42 GMT -5
I do the same thing, Tim. It's the whole "circle of life" thing I enjoy. You know, the ying and the yang. Knowing the environment and what surrounds you. Even if it doesn't make me a better fisherman, it makes me appreciate things a lot more. It doesn't help me with you though, Uplander... maybe whiskey will... I feel like I need to kill a few brain cells to better understand you. |
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Post by Joshua Field on Sept 8, 2005 20:25:57 GMT -5
Tim - what sort of gear does he test for pH with? I was curious after reading that bit about spring streams and pH content due to lime (lord knows there is a lot of lime in north county!)
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Post by tims on Sept 9, 2005 7:29:27 GMT -5
not quite sure....it was early AM and salmon were on the take at GLS, so i looked only briefly.....it was electronic, that i know.....he is an engineer, works at UMaine, so it was high end.....
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Post by JoeOverlock on Sept 9, 2005 13:49:14 GMT -5
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